Mtg Rulings Destroy Stripmine Stifle Stripmine Sacrificed Again
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Killing a creature to prevent an power from resolving (?)
Source: https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/magic-rulings-archives/312543-killing-a-creature-to-prevent-an-ability-from
#ane Feb 27, 2013
Hey guys,
I was just reading a thread in this forum proverb that destroying a source of an ability won't protect you from that power once it'southward been activated, and I wanted to get some description.
For example, if someone activates a Pack Rats power, tin can his opponent in response impale Pack Rats and prevent the copy from reaching the battlefield as a issue? And that person still would have discarded a card etc?
Or does the re-create still resolve and accomplish the battlefield as a re-create of Pack Rats?
Forth the same lines but slightly different (and this is where I got more confused), if a mother of runes taps to give herself protection from Red, but in response I shock it to kill it, would the Mother of Runes die or?
Thanks,
Eric
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#2 Feb 27, 2013
Pack Rat
Mother of Runes
When a player activates Pack Rat'south power, they denote the ability and put it onto the stack, then pay its costs (2 B and discard a card). At that bespeak the ability is activated and waiting to resolve. Yous can certainly respond to the ability and destroy Pack Rat, but the ability still resolves. At which signal, since it needs to brand a re-create of Pack Rat, the ability will use final known data to put a token re-create of Pack Rat onto the battleground.
Destroying Pack Rat once the ability is activated accomplishes nothing hither.
Well, this is different because Mother of Runes doesn't proceeds protection until her ability resolves. Then, if you reply to the power earlier Mother of Runes would actually gain protection from cerise, Shock volition indeed bargain 2 damage to Mother of Runes. Mother of Runes dies before her ability ever resolves (and information technology won't resolve since its target is illegal).
Information technology'south of import to empathize the context of the statement and the situation itself. It is true to say the ability won't stop to exist only by destroying the source of the ability... Simply in some cases, the ability merely won't do anything every bit it resolves (or it may not resolve if its but target is now gone).
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DCI Regional Judge (L3)
#three Feb 27, 2013
First, here's the rule from the Comprehensive Rules that is relevant to your questions:
The whole paragraph is pretty informative, only the offset two sentences become the point across pretty efficiently. And then, to answer your questions:
1. Pack Rat's power volition notwithstanding resolve, even if it's destroyed in response to its power existence activated.
Note that, if Pack Rat's ability is countered via Stifle/Voidslime/etc., the cost that was paid to activate its power is non refunded -- much similar you never receive refunds for countered spells.
This is a confusing statement. The activated ability resolves, and creates a token re-create of Pack Rat. There's no copy of Pack Rat anywhere, until the ability resolves.
As for your last question: Mother of Runes will be destroyed, every bit your fire spell resolves before its ability grants it protection.
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#4 Feb 27, 2013
At that place's nil happening that would terminate Pack Rats power from resolving. You kill the rat, but the ability is still there and when it resolves it asks "What is this pack rat I'thousand copying" and and then it sees it'south expressionless so it's question changes to "What was this pack rat I'm copying the last fourth dimension it was on the battlefield". It'south possible I'm a little incorrect on this, and the copy effect might be determined when information technology'south put on the stack, simply that doesn't actually change the reply and I don't call up I am wrong.
Tl;Dr Pack rat even so makes a pack rat fifty-fifty if information technology dies a Martyr's expiry doing it.
Now, mother of runes is something completely different. Mother taps to make itself pro red, and then you shock it in response. When daze resolves it asks if anything is stoping it from hitting mother of runes. Since mother of runes power is still on the stack, it doesn't have pro cherry-red and shock sees that it hits and kills mother. Then Mother of Runes ability is on the peak of the stack, simply when it tries to resolve there's no Mother of Runes to give pro red to, so it fizzles with a resounding "Welp".
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Generals meant to be drafted outset in a unmarried pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (threescore carte decks)
#five Feb 27, 2013
Thank you k you for the responses.
What about if you accept an untapped nevinrals disk, you activate the ability, and in response someone shatters the disk? That wouldn't however go through right? Just what's the difference?
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#6 Feb 27, 2013
You tin shatter the disk, but the ability volition still resolve equally normal, and destroy all artifacts, creatures, and enchantments.
The ability will resolve independently of its source. The Disk doesn't have to be on the battleground for the ability to continue to resolve as normal, including if information technology gets destroyed.
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#7 Feb 27, 2013
The power would notwithstanding resolve. Abilities exist independent of their source one time activated. To use the common analogy: If I throw a Grenade at y'all, and you shoot me dead, the grenade is nonetheless going to blow upwards in your face.
In your own Female parent of Runes scenario, Mom's ability withal exists on the stack even after she leaves the battlefield. It just counters on resolution due to having an illegal target. Now, if you'd targeted another creature with her and she however took the bolt, the ability would resolve and the target would gain the protection.
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#8 Feb 27, 2013
When it comes to activated abilities you e'er await at what the ability says. Activated abilities always await similar the post-obit - cost: ability. When an ability has information technology'southward cost paid for, whatever the toll is that happens first. Then the abilities go into the stack in "start in, last out" order.
And then every bit soon every bit the power is activated and paid for the ability goes on the stack. That'due south it. You lot can't practice anything to the toll portion and the ability has gone on the stack. So with Female parent of Runes the cost is tapping. Borer can be in washed in response, there's not much any histrion can practise hither. The ability at that point is on the stack. It hasn't resolved withal. So in response you can shock it or doomblade it just fine. If the doomblade or shock is played starting time then Mother of Runes ability goes on the stack second the Mother has her ability come off the stack outset and it activates first before the daze or doomblade works.
On the other manus, if Mother of Runes had the protection clause as part of the price so NO Affair WHEN THE Power IS ACTIVATED, the creature has protection from whatever color you want considering the creature gained protection as part of the cost.
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#ix February 27, 2013
That is so dorsum bizarre to me... My friends and I accept been playing incorrectly for years.....
So how the heck exercise y'all combat something similar deejay or Whatever ability? You take to have a card that can counter abilities?
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#x Feb 27, 2013
Something like stifle or voidslime would do the flim-flam. Or, equally an alternative, fourth dimension stop doesn't counter the abilities, it just removes them from the stack and ends the plow.
EDIT: Another mode to deal with abilities (and spells) that target is to make the target illegal. In the Mother of Runes and Shock scenario, if you tried to shock before she was tapped, and then the opponent tapped in response and gave pro-reddish, the shock would exist countered considering it has no legal targets. the same would happen for whatsoever ability that targets her (dissipated pyromancer, purple assassin, etc.) Hexproof and shroud do the same affair so far equally targeting goes. So vines of vastwood can function as a 'counter' for any targeted spell or power your opponents try to apply on your creatures. Doesn't do much for abilities that don't target, though.
Last edited by Polski: Feb 27, 2013
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Legacy
W Due west Expiry and Taxes Westward W
Modern
Due west BMartyr-Proc B W
#eleven Feb 27, 2013
Stifle, or other cards with like effects, work.
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#12 Feb 27, 2013
So in limited where those cards aren't actually around much.... It's substantially similar you're stuck with having to deal with the activated power even if the card is removed. That is ridiculous! Mind bravado really.
Nosotros play a cube format where there are TONS of powerful creatures/artifacts etc, and nosotros've been playing that if you used an ability just in response someone killed it, the power was gone. This seriously changes the entire game equally nosotros knew it, and non necessarily for the better/more balanced.
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#13 February 27, 2013
Think of information technology this manner. Y'all and your friend are standing across from each other. Your friend throws a rock at y'all, and in response, yous shoot him. You simply shot him. The rock is still coming for yous. The same principle applies here. You are simply taking out the source. The rock is still in the air.
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#14 Feb 27, 2013
What if I take a fetchland and I go to employ information technology, but then an opponent stripmine/wasteland'south it in response? Does the issue however go off and I can search for a land, or am I paying one life and getting nothing???
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#15 Feb 27, 2013
Part of using a fetch land is saccing information technology. Then they cannot answer to you activating it by trying to destroy.
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#16 February 27, 2013
Despite playing for so many years, I experience like a complete Magic idiot (which I guess I am after all this) for not knowing this incredibly important dominion. I guess it has never come as an issue considering every person I've played with has idea information technology to exist the way I initially mentioned.
If someone attacks me with a 2/2 beast and I make a Mishra'south Manufacturing plant into a beast, cake, then tap to use it'south ability to give itself +i/+ane, does the damage get onto the 2/2 as 3 and the Mishra's Manufacturing plant survive? Or is that non allowed? How would that pan out?
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#17 Feb 27, 2013
Mishra's Factory
That does work as you draw. You tin breathing a Mishra's Factory, assign it every bit a blocker, and so activate its power to pump itself before damage is assigned.
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#18 February 27, 2013
You can animate the Mill, block, then tap it to its own ability. The Factory will be a iii/3 when impairment is dealt, so your factory will assign 3 damage, which is lethal to the aggressor. The factory will exist dealt 2 damage, and volition survive since information technology is a 3/3.
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Former Level 2 Guess (Retired / Renounced)
Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
(Credit to DarkNightCavalier)
$tandard: Too poor.
Modern:
- G W Birthing Pod(?)
Legacy:
- U W R Delver
#19 February 27, 2013
What most blocking and sacrificing? Such as blocking a 2/2 with a mogg fanatic, then sac'ing to deal it an additional 1 damage. Is that possible, or does the mogg fanatic die before the harm goes on?
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#20 Feb 27, 2013
On a related annotation, It is possible to kill a creature to prevent an ability from resolving, if the creature you are killing is the simply target of that spell or ability.
like if you sacrifice a animate being who is targeted with chandra'south outrage you won't take ii damage.
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#21 Feb 27, 2013
Declaring a creature as a blocker does non immediately brand it bargain damage. Yous could declare information technology as a blocker, then sacrifice it to bargain 1 to something, simply information technology will not deal gainsay damage. Conversely, you can cull to let information technology deal gainsay damage, but it will so die earlier you have a chance to sacrifice. You tin can't get both anymore. This was possible before M10, when combat impairment used the stack, merely that is no longer the case.
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Legacy
W W Death and Taxes Westward Westward
Modern
W BMartyr-Proc B W
#22 Feb 27, 2013
A spell or ability gets countered upon resolution if all of its targets are illegal. Chandra's Outrage has only one target, so yes, if you lot sacrifice the creature in response, the spell will get countered. This is non the case if the spell has multiple targets, like Flames of the Firebrand, in which instance it will resolve and practice every bit much as possible.
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If your question is "What would a judge do is this situation?", but i person's reply is relevant, and that is the Head Judge at your issue. I tin quote the rules, just I don't know your HJ.
#23 Feb 27, 2013
I think this thread has gone on long enough. Ebase131, if you have whatsoever additional questions, delight feel free to make new threads for them.
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Delight use card tags when you're asking a question almost specific cards: [c]Serra Angel[/c] -> Serra Affections.